Who was a stronger mother

Kunti or Gandhari ,the mothers of Pandav and Kaurav are unique in their own style. both dedicated their lives for their families. whom do you consider to be more stronger in their character. (Posted by deepakdr)

vikrant - I strongly feel Gandhari was strongest. Cause she being a mother never supported wrong practices done by duryodhana and his brothers. She always tried to put duryodhana on the path of dharma.
But on other hand Kunti didnt have even that much power to accept that Karna was her son.

deepakdr - Very true ,even I think she was extremely courageous and on the right path.She had married a blind man and lived whole of her life tying her eyes all the time so as not see anything worldly .Then she knew her husband was desperate to wrongfully own the kingdom ,but she always tried to show him the right way.She also knew Duryodhan was on adharm side and so never blessed him success. The shield which she gave to Duryodhan was also to save herself from losing all her sons.
She had so much strength that even krishna had to suffer her curse at the end of the war.
Kunti on the other hand was timid.She didnot accept karna in the competition arena which would have saved all the greats from waging the terrible war.She also didnot tell her sons that Draupadi should stay only with Arjun who had won her instead allowed them to make her wife of all the 5 brothers.She also had to go to karna and beg for the lives for her sons ,who otherwise would have definately be slain by Karna in the war.All this from a Kshatriya Maharani?

rahulrajmehra - I am also agree with the viewpoint that gandhari was the strongest because she always scolded Duryodhana for his wrong deeds and also tried to convince her husband Dhritrashtra to go on right side and just not looking his desires to make Duryodhan the next king of Hastinapur.
 
RajmiArun - Gandari might have been a good mother, but not a strong mother. Deep in her heart, she wanted her son to rule the kingdom. Infact when she heard that Kunti have given birth to Yudishtra, she who was pregnant got so anguished and kept punching her stomach.

The story goes thus, that a big mass came out of her womb and her mother in law have to console her. If not for Veda Vyasa, there would not have been any Kauravas. He was the person, who divided the mass into 101 pieces and put them into ghee pots which were purified by mantras.

Once she came to know that the Pandavas have come back with great powers and her sons cannot match them, she stopped her sons from doing any thing against Pandavas, but she never stopped her brother from plotting against Pandavas.

I am sorry to interrupt you Deepak, Kunti didnot beg for the lives of her sons from Karna, but she asked him to join his brothers; she asked him to join Pandavas, just to stop the war. In fact, she was not willing to go and ask for anything from him, but it was Krishna who forced her to go. You ask all this from a Kshatriya Maharani? and at the same time, you also say that she should have accepted him as her son. How can a Kshatriya Maharani accept a person as her son, in front of so many, when she is not having her husband to support her. Infact Pandu knows the fact.

And coming to the part of Draupadi, all that happenned when they were living in a village after the fire accident. It had so happenned at that time, that anything that they get to eat or drink all the brothers share amongst themselves. And it is not her wrong, but it is the words of Yudishtra which have made her make that mistake.

When it comes to be a mother, and a strong mother, it is Kunti and not Gandhari who is the strongest. Gandari, never stepped out of the palace, she got everything under the sun in her hands; but it was never the case for Kunti. She was always with her sons, supporting them in all odds and giving them all the mental strength they needed.

The great war of Mahabaratha was not because of Kunti accepting Karna as her son, but because of Gandari not stopping Duryodana and Dushchasana from doing the wrong deed against Draupadi. If she is the strong mother, she would have stopped that from happenning which she failed to do so.
 
deepakdr - to certain aspects of your view I agree about the plus points of Kunti,I never mean to say she is not strong ,she is strong but in comparison to Gandhari,a question mark does arise.Gandhari never supported Shakuni ,instead she was very much against her but it was Dhritrashtra who kept Shakini with him and did not allow anyone speak against him.
Regarding Kunti not begging to Karna, I do share a different opinion from yours and the books I have read do state she had begged him for her sons lives,it is also true that Krishn played a big role in sending her to him.Krishna and Kunti both knew Pandav were no match to Karna in his full flow and he would have definitely killed them in the war but for the promise he had given.Whole world knew Karna never refused any thing in the morning prayer to any bikshuk and she had gone at that time specifically.If she had told in front of the public during the competition that Karna was her eldest son,then there would not have been any issue about his taking part in the competition and Duryodhan would not have got the oppurtunity to do a favor for Karna and there would not have been any friendship ensuing between them.Please note,it is not because of Bheeshma or Drona in his side that Duryodhan had thought of this war ,but only because he knew Karna was on his side.
Gandhari love for her son is shown only after she loses 99 of her sons and only Duryodhan is remaining ,then only she calls him to bestow her shakti to him by seeing him in naked,which was foiled by Krishna. She had spent in Palce very true but had tied her eyes only because her husband was a blind man and lived whole of her life blindly,which is no mean feat.She never supported her son's misdeeds and always told Duryodhan to make amends and live amicably with Pandav.
The fact that Krishna accepted her curse with out a word and respected her so much ,speaks volumes of her strength.To curse Krishna and for that to really come true ,one has to be something extraordinary.

RajmiArun - There is one particular issue where she cannot tell that Karna is her son. According to some books which I have come across, Pandu and Kunti were known to each other for a long time, even before they got married. Infact Karna is her (their son, Pandu and Kunti) son is known even to Pandu and Madri. As both of them are not alive during that public gathering, she was unable to reveal the truth, for she feared that she might be regarded as a sinned person.

One thing might be true, Duryodhana was ready to wage the war on Pandavas just because Karna was with him, but there is a saap for Karna, that when in need he will forget all the mantras he have learnt, it have been given by none other than Parasurama, and infact remembering that, Karna was not ready in the beginning to start a big war, even though he was with Duryodana whenever he needed him.

I agree with you in the fact that Gandhari cursed Krishna, but at the same time, I cant agree with you that she did never had a thought that her son have to be the king. If not why should she get anguished when she came to know that Kunti have given birth to Yudishtra?

deepakdr - What you are saying is obvious ,and what I mean is if such a thing would have happened ,may be the war would have been averted.In one of the version I had read even Bheeshma had the knowledge about the evolution of Karna but even he kept quiet.Kunti would have been embarassed in soicety is logical,but if you see how whole of that race had come,even that should have been acceptable.For that matter Dritrashtra, Pandu and Vidur were from Vyas, Pandav were from Dev and kaurav also came with help of Vyas,so the entire gamut is such.
If you still go back during the rule of King Bharat,he had pronounced that any one who is good enough ,irrespective of his lineage,can become the king.According to that Bheeshma should actually have been made the king and since he had himself refused,others got the chance.In between they forgot what was the criteria laid by Bharat,otherwise there was no need to ask who was Karna,if he was good enough to compete ,he should have been allowed and probably made the king later on.
Regarding the curse of Parshuram,probably you are unaware ,even Parshuram himself felt bad for having cursed Karna,but he could not revert it back.Karna was his favourite disciple and Parshuram took great pride in taeching him.It is even said that the curses were made so as to weaken Karna's strength which would have affected Pandav badly in the war.In my study, I have never come across a statement like Karna not willing for a war,on the contrary ,he was always telling Duryodhan to just wage a war and he will secure victory for him and not to listen to devious methods of Shakuni,for they are Kshatriya and their dharam is to fight.

RajmiArun - You are right about Karna telling Duryodhana that they will win the war. But initially, he was angry, just because he was refused to show his skills.

More over, Karna, did not like Dronacharya and if I am right, Drona said that he will be the head of the soldiers if and only if Karna didnot come to the battle field and Karna did oblige and came to fight only after Dronacharya went in a deep penace hearing Aswathama Hatha Kunjaraha

deepakdr - It was the the other way round Drona didnot like Karna, and he had refused to accept karna as his disciple ,only then Karna had to go to Parshuram to learn Bramhaastra.It was not Drona who had said he will not fight till Karna was in the battle field ,but was Bheeshma,coz he knew who Karna was ,and he wanted Arjun and Karna not to fight against each other,as both were brothers and the best of the generation and ,if the fight ensued one had to die,which he did not want to happen .So to prevent this he had insulted Karna and called him an ardh rathi and not maharathi just before the war was to begin, at which Karna got angry and he told Duryodhan that let Bheeshma be the senapati and if he failed to bring victory to kaurav ,only then he will step on to the battlefield.Inspite of all the insults being heaped upon him, Karna gave Bheeshma and Drona the respect they deserved and asked duryodhan to make them senapati ahead of him.He fought under Drona from 11th day (Bheeshma fell on 10th )to 16 the day ,when Drona was killed.Later on he became the senapati.

Note: The above discussion was part of a community forum initially done on www.indiastudychannel.com.


    

Role of destiny in the final outcome of mahabharat

There are so many great characters in this epic and each one on their own could have changed the world around but did any one of them succeed in changing the ultimate outcome or for that matter even prevent the war ,which was pre eminent. It was visualised and felt by Vyas,Bheeshma,Drona,Vidur,Krishna and none of them could stop it. (Posted by deepakdr)

rahulrajmehra - Because there are so many misdeeds done by the kauravas towards the pandavas that the war was unavoidable,due to which every great personality in this epic unable to stop the destiny.

deepakdr - it is not the misdeeds or good work done by anyone it was their fate which led to their downfall. The great characters where following their own dharma but were on the caught on the wrong foot and their own egos prevented them to get out of the situation. Even Krishna had tried to stop the war by going as to Dhritrashtra with a peace proposal and he had not done any misdeed. I just want to convey and ponder is it pure fate which led to all this? 

RajmiArun - It is said that whenever, the population of the world increases (especially the population of bad people), lord is said to destroy them either he coming himself as an incarnation or taking the help of so many others.

One can also say that fate, the weapon of the lord killed so many and helped dharma to regain its rule.

Krishna though went to the Kauravas with the proposal of giving of atleast 5 villages for Pandavas, he was sure that it wont happen and infact he wanted a war to be waged and the adharma to be destroyed.
 
deepakdr - yes,very true, Krishna had done all this to show to the world that do karma and donot bother about the result.He was just doing his Karma as a human being ,though he knew the final outcome

rahulrajmehra - Final outcome is not the only thing my dear friend deepakdr,because if all the things are decided then there is no requirement for us to do anything,but Karmas of mankind are able to change anything in the world.Had Duryodhana and Shakuni not done those bad practices there would be no war because duryodhana itself was an incarnation of Kali and there was never any document in our vedas that defines fight between two avatars.

deepakdr - What is you say is one concept of Geeta updesh and what I say is another concept of the same theory.the duel for this aspect is on and will go on and on with no end.  

Note: The above discussion was part of a community forum initially done on www.indiastudychannel.com.


 

Friendship between Arjuna and Krishna

Pandavas and Kauravas had equal relationships with the yadavas. Still what is the reason that Arjuna was much closer to Krishna than anyone. What is the reason behind this great friendship. More importantly this friendship made Arjuna win the war. (Posted by Jeya)

rahulrajmehra  - There was an equal affection of Lord Krishna with all the pandavas but there were some reasons of some more affection with arjuna.First of all Shri Krishna was much impressed with the perfection of archery by arjuna at the swayamvara of Draupadi.Secondly Lord Krishna was the brother-in-law of arjuna(as Arjuna is married to his sister Subhadra),and he was also the best warrior of all the pandavas so he requires a charioteer of his matching which no one fulfills but Shri Krishna can.These are the main reasons for their bonding. 

deepakdr - It is the bringing together of Nar-Narayan. The friendship between them is more out of respect of Arjun towards Krishna and his complete faith in him.Krishna on his part was very affectionate towards Arjun and in order to establish Dharm he chose a brave and great warrior as his partner.He scolded ,cajoled,commanded them and utilised all the means to help Pandav and Arjun particularly so that they win and ultimately Dharam prevails

Note: The above discussion was part of a community forum initially done on www.indiastudychannel.com.
 

Friendship in Mahabharatha

The examples for great friendships are provided in Mahabharata.Whose friendship was great and deep ?

Krishna and Arjuna
or
Duryodhana and Karna

(Posted by renju)

rahulrajmehra - I think the friendship between duryodhan and Karna was more deep because it is above cast and creed and i think the only good act of Duryodhan in whole Mahabharat. 

renju - I am also of the same opinion.

deepakdr - It was that of Duryodhan and Karna. It had such depth they held on to each other in every situation without bothering for anything ,even their own life.It was above the factor of caste ,so important in those times. Karna fought so many kings single handedly for the sake of Duryodhan in the episode which later resulted in the marriage of Duryodhan.karna l,later refuse to go back to Pandav camp just before the great war even when Krishna and Kunti offered him the kingdom.It only shows how deeply they were attached and true to his word Karna lost his life for Duryadhan and after that only Pandav could attack Duryodhan, 

Note: The above discussion was part of a community forum initially done on www.indiastudychannel.com.

श्री कृष्ण का विराट स्वरुप

श्री कृष्ण का अपने वचन को तोड़ना और भीष्म पितामह द्वारा उनका स्वागत करना

गीता उपदेश की प्रासंगिकता

यदा यदा ही धर्मस्य ग्लानिर्भवति भारत
अभ्युथानम धर्मस्य तदात्मानं सृजाम्य्हम
परित्रानाय साधूनां विनाशाय च दुष्कृताम
धर्मसंस्थाप्नार्थाया संभवामि युगे युगे

श्री कृष्ण के ये वचन हर युग में उतने ही प्रासंगिक हैं जितने की द्वापर युग में। महाभारत की कथा हमे यही सिखाती है की निष्काम फल की इच्छा से कर्म को करने वाला ही जीवन में सफलता पाता है। फिर ऐसा क्यूँ है की हम सांसारिक भोगों की तृष्णा में अपने लक्ष्य से भटक जाते हैं। अर्जुन भी जब लक्ष्य से भटक गया था तब उसे समझाने में वासुदेव ने संसार को एक अनमोल उपहार भेंट किया जिसे हम गीता उपदेश कहते हैं। जो व्यक्ति निहित स्वार्थ को भूलकर सिर्फ़ कर्म पर ध्यान देता है वो संसार में सबसे परम स्थान को पाने के योग्य हो जाता है।दूसरे धर्मों की तरह श्री कृष्ण ने ये कभी नही कहा की मोक्ष का मार्ग ख़ुद को कष्ट देना या जीवन से विरक्त हो जाना है बल्कि उन्होंने तो इस जीवन को पूर्ण रूप से आनंद के साथ भोगने के लिए कहा है। उनका मानना है कि सबसे बड़ा वैराग्य इसी में है कि बिना किसी स्वार्थ के कर्म करते हुए ख़ुद को धर्म की रक्षा में अर्पण कर देना। हर युग में श्री कृष्ण की तरह मार्ग दिखाने वाले लोग पर्याप्त मात्रा में उपलब्ध हैं , आवश्यकता है तो सिर्फ़ उन लोगो पर ध्यान देने की जो कहते हैं कि धर्म कि मार्ग पर चलना ही हितकारी है और धर्म के लिए किसी भी चीज़ का त्याग करना पड़े तो वो अनिवार्य है। ख़ुद को श्री कृष्ण को अर्पण कर देना ही सब दुखों का निवारण है।