Kunti
or Gandhari ,the mothers of Pandav and Kaurav are unique in their own
style. both dedicated their lives for their families. whom do you
consider to be more stronger in their character. (Posted by deepakdr)
vikrant - I strongly feel Gandhari was strongest. Cause she being a mother never supported wrong practices done by duryodhana and his brothers. She always tried to put duryodhana on the path of dharma.
But on other hand Kunti didnt have even that much power to accept that Karna was her son.
deepakdr - Very true ,even I think she was extremely courageous and on the right path.She had married a blind man and lived whole of her life tying her eyes all the time so as not see anything worldly .Then she knew her husband was desperate to wrongfully own the kingdom ,but she always tried to show him the right way.She also knew Duryodhan was on adharm side and so never blessed him success. The shield which she gave to Duryodhan was also to save herself from losing all her sons.
She had so much strength that even krishna had to suffer her curse at the end of the war.
Kunti on the other hand was timid.She didnot accept karna in the competition arena which would have saved all the greats from waging the terrible war.She also didnot tell her sons that Draupadi should stay only with Arjun who had won her instead allowed them to make her wife of all the 5 brothers.She also had to go to karna and beg for the lives for her sons ,who otherwise would have definately be slain by Karna in the war.All this from a Kshatriya Maharani?
rahulrajmehra - I am also agree with the viewpoint that gandhari was the strongest because she always scolded Duryodhana for his wrong deeds and also tried to convince her husband Dhritrashtra to go on right side and just not looking his desires to make Duryodhan the next king of Hastinapur.
RajmiArun - Gandari might have been a good mother, but not a strong mother. Deep in her heart, she wanted her son to rule the kingdom. Infact when she heard that Kunti have given birth to Yudishtra, she who was pregnant got so anguished and kept punching her stomach.
The story goes thus, that a big mass came out of her womb and her mother in law have to console her. If not for Veda Vyasa, there would not have been any Kauravas. He was the person, who divided the mass into 101 pieces and put them into ghee pots which were purified by mantras.
Once she came to know that the Pandavas have come back with great powers and her sons cannot match them, she stopped her sons from doing any thing against Pandavas, but she never stopped her brother from plotting against Pandavas.
I am sorry to interrupt you Deepak, Kunti didnot beg for the lives of her sons from Karna, but she asked him to join his brothers; she asked him to join Pandavas, just to stop the war. In fact, she was not willing to go and ask for anything from him, but it was Krishna who forced her to go. You ask all this from a Kshatriya Maharani? and at the same time, you also say that she should have accepted him as her son. How can a Kshatriya Maharani accept a person as her son, in front of so many, when she is not having her husband to support her. Infact Pandu knows the fact.
And coming to the part of Draupadi, all that happenned when they were living in a village after the fire accident. It had so happenned at that time, that anything that they get to eat or drink all the brothers share amongst themselves. And it is not her wrong, but it is the words of Yudishtra which have made her make that mistake.
When it comes to be a mother, and a strong mother, it is Kunti and not Gandhari who is the strongest. Gandari, never stepped out of the palace, she got everything under the sun in her hands; but it was never the case for Kunti. She was always with her sons, supporting them in all odds and giving them all the mental strength they needed.
The great war of Mahabaratha was not because of Kunti accepting Karna as her son, but because of Gandari not stopping Duryodana and Dushchasana from doing the wrong deed against Draupadi. If she is the strong mother, she would have stopped that from happenning which she failed to do so.
deepakdr - to certain aspects of your view I agree about the plus points of Kunti,I never mean to say she is not strong ,she is strong but in comparison to Gandhari,a question mark does arise.Gandhari never supported Shakuni ,instead she was very much against her but it was Dhritrashtra who kept Shakini with him and did not allow anyone speak against him.
Regarding Kunti not begging to Karna, I do share a different opinion from yours and the books I have read do state she had begged him for her sons lives,it is also true that Krishn played a big role in sending her to him.Krishna and Kunti both knew Pandav were no match to Karna in his full flow and he would have definitely killed them in the war but for the promise he had given.Whole world knew Karna never refused any thing in the morning prayer to any bikshuk and she had gone at that time specifically.If she had told in front of the public during the competition that Karna was her eldest son,then there would not have been any issue about his taking part in the competition and Duryodhan would not have got the oppurtunity to do a favor for Karna and there would not have been any friendship ensuing between them.Please note,it is not because of Bheeshma or Drona in his side that Duryodhan had thought of this war ,but only because he knew Karna was on his side.
Gandhari love for her son is shown only after she loses 99 of her sons and only Duryodhan is remaining ,then only she calls him to bestow her shakti to him by seeing him in naked,which was foiled by Krishna. She had spent in Palce very true but had tied her eyes only because her husband was a blind man and lived whole of her life blindly,which is no mean feat.She never supported her son's misdeeds and always told Duryodhan to make amends and live amicably with Pandav.
The fact that Krishna accepted her curse with out a word and respected her so much ,speaks volumes of her strength.To curse Krishna and for that to really come true ,one has to be something extraordinary.
RajmiArun - There is one particular issue where she cannot tell that Karna is her son. According to some books which I have come across, Pandu and Kunti were known to each other for a long time, even before they got married. Infact Karna is her (their son, Pandu and Kunti) son is known even to Pandu and Madri. As both of them are not alive during that public gathering, she was unable to reveal the truth, for she feared that she might be regarded as a sinned person.
One thing might be true, Duryodhana was ready to wage the war on Pandavas just because Karna was with him, but there is a saap for Karna, that when in need he will forget all the mantras he have learnt, it have been given by none other than Parasurama, and infact remembering that, Karna was not ready in the beginning to start a big war, even though he was with Duryodana whenever he needed him.
I agree with you in the fact that Gandhari cursed Krishna, but at the same time, I cant agree with you that she did never had a thought that her son have to be the king. If not why should she get anguished when she came to know that Kunti have given birth to Yudishtra?
deepakdr - What you are saying is obvious ,and what I mean is if such a thing would have happened ,may be the war would have been averted.In one of the version I had read even Bheeshma had the knowledge about the evolution of Karna but even he kept quiet.Kunti would have been embarassed in soicety is logical,but if you see how whole of that race had come,even that should have been acceptable.For that matter Dritrashtra, Pandu and Vidur were from Vyas, Pandav were from Dev and kaurav also came with help of Vyas,so the entire gamut is such.
If you still go back during the rule of King Bharat,he had pronounced that any one who is good enough ,irrespective of his lineage,can become the king.According to that Bheeshma should actually have been made the king and since he had himself refused,others got the chance.In between they forgot what was the criteria laid by Bharat,otherwise there was no need to ask who was Karna,if he was good enough to compete ,he should have been allowed and probably made the king later on.
Regarding the curse of Parshuram,probably you are unaware ,even Parshuram himself felt bad for having cursed Karna,but he could not revert it back.Karna was his favourite disciple and Parshuram took great pride in taeching him.It is even said that the curses were made so as to weaken Karna's strength which would have affected Pandav badly in the war.In my study, I have never come across a statement like Karna not willing for a war,on the contrary ,he was always telling Duryodhan to just wage a war and he will secure victory for him and not to listen to devious methods of Shakuni,for they are Kshatriya and their dharam is to fight.
RajmiArun - You are right about Karna telling Duryodhana that they will win the war. But initially, he was angry, just because he was refused to show his skills.
More over, Karna, did not like Dronacharya and if I am right, Drona said that he will be the head of the soldiers if and only if Karna didnot come to the battle field and Karna did oblige and came to fight only after Dronacharya went in a deep penace hearing Aswathama Hatha Kunjaraha
deepakdr - It was the the other way round Drona didnot like Karna, and he had refused to accept karna as his disciple ,only then Karna had to go to Parshuram to learn Bramhaastra.It was not Drona who had said he will not fight till Karna was in the battle field ,but was Bheeshma,coz he knew who Karna was ,and he wanted Arjun and Karna not to fight against each other,as both were brothers and the best of the generation and ,if the fight ensued one had to die,which he did not want to happen .So to prevent this he had insulted Karna and called him an ardh rathi and not maharathi just before the war was to begin, at which Karna got angry and he told Duryodhan that let Bheeshma be the senapati and if he failed to bring victory to kaurav ,only then he will step on to the battlefield.Inspite of all the insults being heaped upon him, Karna gave Bheeshma and Drona the respect they deserved and asked duryodhan to make them senapati ahead of him.He fought under Drona from 11th day (Bheeshma fell on 10th )to 16 the day ,when Drona was killed.Later on he became the senapati.
Note: The above discussion was part of a community forum initially done on www.indiastudychannel.com.
vikrant - I strongly feel Gandhari was strongest. Cause she being a mother never supported wrong practices done by duryodhana and his brothers. She always tried to put duryodhana on the path of dharma.
But on other hand Kunti didnt have even that much power to accept that Karna was her son.
deepakdr - Very true ,even I think she was extremely courageous and on the right path.She had married a blind man and lived whole of her life tying her eyes all the time so as not see anything worldly .Then she knew her husband was desperate to wrongfully own the kingdom ,but she always tried to show him the right way.She also knew Duryodhan was on adharm side and so never blessed him success. The shield which she gave to Duryodhan was also to save herself from losing all her sons.
She had so much strength that even krishna had to suffer her curse at the end of the war.
Kunti on the other hand was timid.She didnot accept karna in the competition arena which would have saved all the greats from waging the terrible war.She also didnot tell her sons that Draupadi should stay only with Arjun who had won her instead allowed them to make her wife of all the 5 brothers.She also had to go to karna and beg for the lives for her sons ,who otherwise would have definately be slain by Karna in the war.All this from a Kshatriya Maharani?
rahulrajmehra - I am also agree with the viewpoint that gandhari was the strongest because she always scolded Duryodhana for his wrong deeds and also tried to convince her husband Dhritrashtra to go on right side and just not looking his desires to make Duryodhan the next king of Hastinapur.
RajmiArun - Gandari might have been a good mother, but not a strong mother. Deep in her heart, she wanted her son to rule the kingdom. Infact when she heard that Kunti have given birth to Yudishtra, she who was pregnant got so anguished and kept punching her stomach.
The story goes thus, that a big mass came out of her womb and her mother in law have to console her. If not for Veda Vyasa, there would not have been any Kauravas. He was the person, who divided the mass into 101 pieces and put them into ghee pots which were purified by mantras.
Once she came to know that the Pandavas have come back with great powers and her sons cannot match them, she stopped her sons from doing any thing against Pandavas, but she never stopped her brother from plotting against Pandavas.
I am sorry to interrupt you Deepak, Kunti didnot beg for the lives of her sons from Karna, but she asked him to join his brothers; she asked him to join Pandavas, just to stop the war. In fact, she was not willing to go and ask for anything from him, but it was Krishna who forced her to go. You ask all this from a Kshatriya Maharani? and at the same time, you also say that she should have accepted him as her son. How can a Kshatriya Maharani accept a person as her son, in front of so many, when she is not having her husband to support her. Infact Pandu knows the fact.
And coming to the part of Draupadi, all that happenned when they were living in a village after the fire accident. It had so happenned at that time, that anything that they get to eat or drink all the brothers share amongst themselves. And it is not her wrong, but it is the words of Yudishtra which have made her make that mistake.
When it comes to be a mother, and a strong mother, it is Kunti and not Gandhari who is the strongest. Gandari, never stepped out of the palace, she got everything under the sun in her hands; but it was never the case for Kunti. She was always with her sons, supporting them in all odds and giving them all the mental strength they needed.
The great war of Mahabaratha was not because of Kunti accepting Karna as her son, but because of Gandari not stopping Duryodana and Dushchasana from doing the wrong deed against Draupadi. If she is the strong mother, she would have stopped that from happenning which she failed to do so.
deepakdr - to certain aspects of your view I agree about the plus points of Kunti,I never mean to say she is not strong ,she is strong but in comparison to Gandhari,a question mark does arise.Gandhari never supported Shakuni ,instead she was very much against her but it was Dhritrashtra who kept Shakini with him and did not allow anyone speak against him.
Regarding Kunti not begging to Karna, I do share a different opinion from yours and the books I have read do state she had begged him for her sons lives,it is also true that Krishn played a big role in sending her to him.Krishna and Kunti both knew Pandav were no match to Karna in his full flow and he would have definitely killed them in the war but for the promise he had given.Whole world knew Karna never refused any thing in the morning prayer to any bikshuk and she had gone at that time specifically.If she had told in front of the public during the competition that Karna was her eldest son,then there would not have been any issue about his taking part in the competition and Duryodhan would not have got the oppurtunity to do a favor for Karna and there would not have been any friendship ensuing between them.Please note,it is not because of Bheeshma or Drona in his side that Duryodhan had thought of this war ,but only because he knew Karna was on his side.
Gandhari love for her son is shown only after she loses 99 of her sons and only Duryodhan is remaining ,then only she calls him to bestow her shakti to him by seeing him in naked,which was foiled by Krishna. She had spent in Palce very true but had tied her eyes only because her husband was a blind man and lived whole of her life blindly,which is no mean feat.She never supported her son's misdeeds and always told Duryodhan to make amends and live amicably with Pandav.
The fact that Krishna accepted her curse with out a word and respected her so much ,speaks volumes of her strength.To curse Krishna and for that to really come true ,one has to be something extraordinary.
RajmiArun - There is one particular issue where she cannot tell that Karna is her son. According to some books which I have come across, Pandu and Kunti were known to each other for a long time, even before they got married. Infact Karna is her (their son, Pandu and Kunti) son is known even to Pandu and Madri. As both of them are not alive during that public gathering, she was unable to reveal the truth, for she feared that she might be regarded as a sinned person.
One thing might be true, Duryodhana was ready to wage the war on Pandavas just because Karna was with him, but there is a saap for Karna, that when in need he will forget all the mantras he have learnt, it have been given by none other than Parasurama, and infact remembering that, Karna was not ready in the beginning to start a big war, even though he was with Duryodana whenever he needed him.
I agree with you in the fact that Gandhari cursed Krishna, but at the same time, I cant agree with you that she did never had a thought that her son have to be the king. If not why should she get anguished when she came to know that Kunti have given birth to Yudishtra?
deepakdr - What you are saying is obvious ,and what I mean is if such a thing would have happened ,may be the war would have been averted.In one of the version I had read even Bheeshma had the knowledge about the evolution of Karna but even he kept quiet.Kunti would have been embarassed in soicety is logical,but if you see how whole of that race had come,even that should have been acceptable.For that matter Dritrashtra, Pandu and Vidur were from Vyas, Pandav were from Dev and kaurav also came with help of Vyas,so the entire gamut is such.
If you still go back during the rule of King Bharat,he had pronounced that any one who is good enough ,irrespective of his lineage,can become the king.According to that Bheeshma should actually have been made the king and since he had himself refused,others got the chance.In between they forgot what was the criteria laid by Bharat,otherwise there was no need to ask who was Karna,if he was good enough to compete ,he should have been allowed and probably made the king later on.
Regarding the curse of Parshuram,probably you are unaware ,even Parshuram himself felt bad for having cursed Karna,but he could not revert it back.Karna was his favourite disciple and Parshuram took great pride in taeching him.It is even said that the curses were made so as to weaken Karna's strength which would have affected Pandav badly in the war.In my study, I have never come across a statement like Karna not willing for a war,on the contrary ,he was always telling Duryodhan to just wage a war and he will secure victory for him and not to listen to devious methods of Shakuni,for they are Kshatriya and their dharam is to fight.
RajmiArun - You are right about Karna telling Duryodhana that they will win the war. But initially, he was angry, just because he was refused to show his skills.
More over, Karna, did not like Dronacharya and if I am right, Drona said that he will be the head of the soldiers if and only if Karna didnot come to the battle field and Karna did oblige and came to fight only after Dronacharya went in a deep penace hearing Aswathama Hatha Kunjaraha
deepakdr - It was the the other way round Drona didnot like Karna, and he had refused to accept karna as his disciple ,only then Karna had to go to Parshuram to learn Bramhaastra.It was not Drona who had said he will not fight till Karna was in the battle field ,but was Bheeshma,coz he knew who Karna was ,and he wanted Arjun and Karna not to fight against each other,as both were brothers and the best of the generation and ,if the fight ensued one had to die,which he did not want to happen .So to prevent this he had insulted Karna and called him an ardh rathi and not maharathi just before the war was to begin, at which Karna got angry and he told Duryodhan that let Bheeshma be the senapati and if he failed to bring victory to kaurav ,only then he will step on to the battlefield.Inspite of all the insults being heaped upon him, Karna gave Bheeshma and Drona the respect they deserved and asked duryodhan to make them senapati ahead of him.He fought under Drona from 11th day (Bheeshma fell on 10th )to 16 the day ,when Drona was killed.Later on he became the senapati.
Note: The above discussion was part of a community forum initially done on www.indiastudychannel.com.
